Recording formations with JoinFS

[razor]

Hello Peter,
I'd like to first introduce myself, then get to my discussion; I am the lead solo for the FSX Blue Angels(http://www.fsxblueangels.com), and our team has been around for a number of years in the boxed edition of FSX(Classic). Early this year we made the transition from boxed, to the steam edition due to the lack of boxed edition multiplayer users. This came with some disadvantages, along with some advantages, one of the biggest of the disadvantages came in the lack of support for FSRecorder in the steam edition.

Now on to the discussion part; Firstly I am so glad to see a program that connects multiple platforms, with minimal position lag, and most importantly(to us) recording software built in. The primary use we got out of FSRecorder was flying in a multiplayer session(gamespy, then fsopen, now steam edition), flying through the sequence of maneuvers known as "The Demo", recording it with FRC, then playing it back in free flight, and streaming it to a livestream website. This allowed us to critique the demo far better than what we could do in flight... for example a member of the team being 5-10 inches too far to the right off the flight leader's wing.

I have recently downloaded JoinFS, and was eager to see if it could be a viable replacement for FRC in steam. Overall, it did well showing Lat/Lon positions of all aircraft, but not the pitch/roll/yaw axis at a contentious rate, basically the airplanes did front and back-flips when they where in a consistent increase or decrease of climb/descent. Here is the recording of a short practice with just a few members of the team: https://www.twitch.tv/fsx_blue_angels/v/104674347

As a team we would love to be able to use JoinFS as a recording tool for our practices/airshows, and posibly even as a server if the aircraft-aircraft positioning can be perfected. I would be more than happy to have a chat with you on Teamspeak, and possibly even have you join in on a practice one night if it would be beneficial to help you to understand our situation. Our TS3 IP: 98.150.240.231 Password: pride

Again, fantastic work, and the FSX Blue Angels will be keeping a close eye on the progression of this great program.

Thanks again,
Benjamin "Razor" Dudley
#5 Lead Solo
FSX Blue Angels

[Peter]

Hi Benjamin,

Thanks for posting and it's great to hear that you are trying out JoinFS with your Blue Angels team. Hopefully the program will make it ideal for the high precision flying required.

I know about this particular problem during inverted manoeuvres, and I know what the problem is, but have yet to find a good solution for it. It has fallen down the priority list at the moment simply because there have been a lot of other aspects to work on and I haven't looked at the problem for about a month. However, one of the main reasons why JoinFS came about was to improve the formation flying experience so I do consider it a serious bug in need of a fix. Unlikely to be this side of Christmas I'm afraid. I've tried a few quick tweaks before which slightly improved it, but I'll probably need a good few spare days to give it a proper go.

Best regards,
Peter

[razor]

Hey Peter, thanks for the response, glad to hear you know about it, and we will look forward for an update at some point.

None the less our offer still stands if your interested at any point.

Thanks again,
Benjamin "Razor" Dudley
#5 Lead Solo
FSX Blue Angels

[Peter]

Forgot to add, yes, it would be great to join you for a practice session, some time soon hopefully.

Thanks,
Peter

[razor]

Yes absolutely. We typically practice Sundays, Tuesdays, and Thursdays at around 9pm est.

[ATC Roo]

Just hijacking a thread but....
Can I expect a Blue Angel formation during the group event Razor?

[Peter]

Sadly, that's about 2am for me. I'll take a look during the weekend.

Peter

[razor]

Hey Roo, unfortunately with the position lag on JoinFS(far less severe than vPilot, but still existent of about 3-5 feet at 400 Knots) it would be very difficult for the team to fly any formation we would be proud of. We would have to work out a way to all get on multiplayer, and sign on individually to JoinFS. I will try to bring it up to the team at practice tomorrow and see if everyone can be around to try it out.

Peter, yeah unfortunately it is rather late for those overseas, if you can't make it we understand, but if you do we would love the visit.

[Peter]

I should be able to eliminate that slight lag with a small amount of prediction. Unlikely before the event though.

Peter

[razor]

Ok, would be great if it works, my only word of caution with working with predictions, is it may better predict where someone will be, but (from experience) it will severely diminish precision in XZY axis of that aircraft.

[Peter]

No worries, I have a few tricks up my sleeve

Peter

[ATC Roo]

Hey Roo, unfortunately with the position lag on JoinFS(far less severe than vPilot, but still existent of about 3-5 feet at 400 Knots) it would be very difficult for the team to fly any formation we would be proud of. We would have to work out a way to all get on multiplayer, and sign on individually to JoinFS. I will try to bring it up to the team at practice tomorrow and see if everyone can be around to try it out.

I may have a solution which is the same I'm doing for another group if you did want to attend.

Let me know.

[razor]

No worries, I have a few tricks up my sleeve

Peter

Glad to hear it.

I may have a solution which is the same I'm doing for another group if you did want to attend.

Let me know.

What's that? Just hosting a multiplayer session, and everyone connecting individually?

[Robert]

Could you guys record and post the .jfs file of the flight?

That way even if people can't join in to observe, they can always download the .jfs file and watch the replay.

I've been hoping aerobatics teams would start doing that anyway. Would be cool!...

[Peter]

Good idea, Robert, I'll create a new sub-forum where people can post links to their recordings for others to view and comment.

Peter

[razor]

Could you guys record and post the .jfs file of the flight?

That way even if people can't join in to observe, they can always download the .jfs file and watch the replay.

I've been hoping aerobatics teams would start doing that anyway. Would be cool!...

We certainly could do something like that, however right now it would look rather odd due to the reasons listed in the OP(if you watch the stream link you will see what I'm talking about). Our solos demo would look reasonably crisp, except for any maneuver inverted flight is done, but the diamond/delta would look very very strange, more or less unwatchable.