Hi Peter,
Firstly, thank you for this amazing piece of software! It has significantly improved multiplayer to a level I never thought was possible!
I’m finding that when I share a cockpit as the 2nd party, I can alter switches/radios/levers, but they return back to the original position. Do you have plans to allow this within shared aircraft?
Thanks,
Nick
Share Cockpit Functionality
Re: Share Cockpit Functionality
Hi Nick,
thanks for your comments.
Yes, I do have plans to do proper dual/multi control. It's likely to be a month or so as there's quite a bit of backlog at the moment, but it will get done. I'm hoping to allow one party to control the flight surfaces and another to control navigation etc. Perhaps on a multi-system aircraft, there could be a third party in control as well.
You can already share your cockpit out to as many people as you like, so that's unlimited passengers, ignoring any weight calculations obviously
Peter
thanks for your comments.
Yes, I do have plans to do proper dual/multi control. It's likely to be a month or so as there's quite a bit of backlog at the moment, but it will get done. I'm hoping to allow one party to control the flight surfaces and another to control navigation etc. Perhaps on a multi-system aircraft, there could be a third party in control as well.
You can already share your cockpit out to as many people as you like, so that's unlimited passengers, ignoring any weight calculations obviously
Peter
Re: Share Cockpit Functionality
I've been doing stress tests on our new system and JoinFS performs flawlessly across the network. Sharing out the navigation/comms is my primary desire. Trying to instruct CRM and then the PF has to do the lot!
I remember gates.to used to allow you to swap roles, would this be possible?
I remember gates.to used to allow you to swap roles, would this be possible?
Re: Share Cockpit Functionality
Yes, that shouldn't be a problem, as long as the pilot allows sharing of controls to each person, then those people will be able to control the aircraft.
Peter
Peter
Re: Share Cockpit Functionality
Looking forward to this! Many thanks.
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Dan-TXHills
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Re: Share Cockpit Functionality
Will chime in here - This is a key feature for us. Very anxious to have control-sharing. Trading control of flight surfaces is one aspect. The ability to have another (or, potentially) more than one other do the systems control (radios, transponder, HSI / heading settings, flaps, gear, throttles, prop pitch, mixture, etc.) is the other aspect of PF / PM team interaction.
One thing to consider - having known this to happen to others - that anyone not currently controlling the flight surfaces be able to assume control. So, in the event that the PF has a heart attack (OK, probably just called to dinner by their spouse) and forgets to give control back to the PM that person can take control and land safely.
Will also add that as I have said before the ability to enter any aircraft even as an observer only is an amazing feature of JoinFS. For those that share aircraft (a rare thing for me before JoinFS), they know that sometimes even the smallest variation (even different textures or added gauge on an otherwise identical aircraft) will prevent sharing.
(Note to self - remember to do the experiment of entering a 737 at altitude using a Cessna 172
)
Dan
One thing to consider - having known this to happen to others - that anyone not currently controlling the flight surfaces be able to assume control. So, in the event that the PF has a heart attack (OK, probably just called to dinner by their spouse) and forgets to give control back to the PM that person can take control and land safely.
Will also add that as I have said before the ability to enter any aircraft even as an observer only is an amazing feature of JoinFS. For those that share aircraft (a rare thing for me before JoinFS), they know that sometimes even the smallest variation (even different textures or added gauge on an otherwise identical aircraft) will prevent sharing.
(Note to self - remember to do the experiment of entering a 737 at altitude using a Cessna 172
)Dan
Re: Share Cockpit Functionality
My initial thoughts on this are to avoid having a special button/key for transferring control. Instead transfer is automatically done based on input detection. For example,Dan-TXHills wrote: One thing to consider - having known this to happen to others - that anyone not currently controlling the flight surfaces be able to assume control. So, in the event that the PF has a heart attack (OK, probably just called to dinner by their spouse) and forgets to give control back to the PM that person can take control and land safely.
Two pilots, A and B.
Input on any axis from pilot A, no input (deadzone) from pilot B, => pilot A has control.
Input on any axis from pilot A, input on any axis from pilot B, => pilot A has control.
No input (deadzone) from pilot A, input on any axis from pilot B => pilot B has control.
The following procedure is then followed to safely transfer control:
Pilot A (instructor), Co-pilot B (student).
Pilot A enables shared controls with pilot B.
Pilot A on TS, "You have the controls".
Pilot B takes the controls.
Pilot B on TS, "I have the controls".
Pilot A takes hands off the controls.
Pilot A on TS, "You have the controls".
Reverse A/B to transfer back.
In an emergency:
Pilot A takes the controls.
Pilot A on TS, "I have the controls".
Pilot B on TS, "You have the controls".
What do you think?
Peter
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Dan-TXHills
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Re: Share Cockpit Functionality
That would work - with the caveat that if someone accidentally bumped their yoke or throttle quadrant they may inadvertently assume axis control. This scenario:
Pilot A is the PF but has the aircraft on autopilot (therefore no active input through Pilot A's controls)
Pilot B's cat jumps into his lap, claws extended, causing Pilot B to thrash around, bumping yoke unintentionally - this would transfer control to Pilot B who is busy bandaging his wounds.
Presumably even in this scenario (with the AP still engaged) there would be no need for further input from either Pilot A or B and that once Pilot A does provide input Pilot A would again be the PF even though no one was aware (other than the cat) that Pilot B had control at one point.
Question: In the scenario of transfer of axis control would both Pilot A and Pilot B have control over other systems at any time (without the need to transfer)?
Dan
Pilot A is the PF but has the aircraft on autopilot (therefore no active input through Pilot A's controls)
Pilot B's cat jumps into his lap, claws extended, causing Pilot B to thrash around, bumping yoke unintentionally - this would transfer control to Pilot B who is busy bandaging his wounds.
Presumably even in this scenario (with the AP still engaged) there would be no need for further input from either Pilot A or B and that once Pilot A does provide input Pilot A would again be the PF even though no one was aware (other than the cat) that Pilot B had control at one point.
Question: In the scenario of transfer of axis control would both Pilot A and Pilot B have control over other systems at any time (without the need to transfer)?
Dan
Re: Share Cockpit Functionality
It could be done that way, yes. For example, use the largest input from both pilots as the input for the control.Dan-TXHills wrote: Question: In the scenario of transfer of axis control would both Pilot A and Pilot B have control over other systems at any time (without the need to transfer)?
Peter
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Dan-TXHills
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Re: Share Cockpit Functionality
Thanks. Flight surface control by the PF (and maybe throttles) with (maybe throttle control), gear, radios, lights etc. taken care of by the PM. Excellent!
Dan
Dan
Re: Share Cockpit Functionality
Hi Peter,Peter wrote: My initial thoughts on this are to avoid having a special button/key for transferring control. Instead transfer is automatically done based on input detection. For example,
Two pilots, A and B.
Input on any axis from pilot A, no input (deadzone) from pilot B, => pilot A has control.
Input on any axis from pilot A, input on any axis from pilot B, => pilot A has control.
No input (deadzone) from pilot A, input on any axis from pilot B => pilot B has control.
The following procedure is then followed to safely transfer control:
Pilot A (instructor), Co-pilot B (student).
Pilot A enables shared controls with pilot B.
Pilot A on TS, "You have the controls".
Pilot B takes the controls.
Pilot B on TS, "I have the controls".
Pilot A takes hands off the controls.
Pilot A on TS, "You have the controls".
Reverse A/B to transfer back.
In an emergency:
Pilot A takes the controls.
Pilot A on TS, "I have the controls".
Pilot B on TS, "You have the controls".
Can you confirm that cockpit sharing works like this?
If so, how long will it take for the flight control change to take place?
Another thing, when the person who shares his cockpit and his flight controls unchecked the flight control box, the plane becomes uncontrollable. Have you noticed this problem?
Otherwise, bravo for version 1.1.10 is that of happiness !!
Re: Share Cockpit Functionality
Hi vedum,
I can confirm that it doesn't work like this.
Due to some implementation issues I decided to have an exclusive hand-over of the flight controls. So you can't automatically pick it up off the other pilot. Instead, the owner of the aircraft must select who they want to hand-over the surface controls to. When you tick the option and click ok, the co-pilot will then have control and you won't. Also note that there is a delay of several seconds at the moment which I will address in the next version.
The other control (non-surface) can be changed by either yourself or your selected shared pilot for those. Again there is a minor bug with the mixture and possibly the throttle/propellor as well, but it still works if the aircraft owner manipulates those.
When you say the aircraft becomes uncontrollable, are any of the share permission ticked. I've not seen this problem. I successfully had two passengers in a flight yesterday and it went very smoothly. If you could provide some extra information, I'll see if I can repeat it.
Peter
I can confirm that it doesn't work like this.
Due to some implementation issues I decided to have an exclusive hand-over of the flight controls. So you can't automatically pick it up off the other pilot. Instead, the owner of the aircraft must select who they want to hand-over the surface controls to. When you tick the option and click ok, the co-pilot will then have control and you won't. Also note that there is a delay of several seconds at the moment which I will address in the next version.
The other control (non-surface) can be changed by either yourself or your selected shared pilot for those. Again there is a minor bug with the mixture and possibly the throttle/propellor as well, but it still works if the aircraft owner manipulates those.
When you say the aircraft becomes uncontrollable, are any of the share permission ticked. I've not seen this problem. I successfully had two passengers in a flight yesterday and it went very smoothly. If you could provide some extra information, I'll see if I can repeat it.
Peter
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Dan-TXHills
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Re: Share Cockpit Functionality
Peter:
I sent an e-mail a few days ago regarding the test version - not sure if you saw that or not.
One of the things that happened was that when transferring controls (either way - handing them over or resuming control) the aircraft goes wildly out of control from which it is very hard if not impossible to recover from. This was when all permissions were ticked initially - then when 'hand over control' was un-ticked other permissions remained ticked.
A very wild ride indeed!
Dan
I sent an e-mail a few days ago regarding the test version - not sure if you saw that or not.
One of the things that happened was that when transferring controls (either way - handing them over or resuming control) the aircraft goes wildly out of control from which it is very hard if not impossible to recover from. This was when all permissions were ticked initially - then when 'hand over control' was un-ticked other permissions remained ticked.
A very wild ride indeed!
Dan
Re: Share Cockpit Functionality
Hi Dan,
I'm fairly sure this is due to the current 5 second delay between handing over control and the co-pilot gaining control. As we all know a lot can happen in 5 seconds flying. I'll get that fixed along with the other issues.
Ah, sorry about the email. I forgot that I'd changed email addresses and haven't checked it for a while. Looks like I have a few to answer. Will respond soon.
Peter
I'm fairly sure this is due to the current 5 second delay between handing over control and the co-pilot gaining control. As we all know a lot can happen in 5 seconds flying.
I'll get that fixed along with the other issues.Ah, sorry about the email. I forgot that I'd changed email addresses and haven't checked it for a while. Looks like I have a few to answer. Will respond soon.
Peter