Engine cut v1.4.3

[Peter]

That's a very reasonable solution, Simon. There's likely to be some freeware equivalents of the aircraft that are affected. Simply install those freeware versions and configure the model matching to use them.

As has been described previously it looks like a problem with the anti-pirate measures employed by certain developers but is done in such a way that it breaks if you load up multiple aircraft in the simulator. Not sure what else I can try to be honest.

Peter

[blue_ice]

Could the Scan for Models window maybe be developed further? i.e could we populate the Aircraft folder and have a check box for each Developer or maybe even further to which models we scan or not scan into Joinfs. If it does detect for example a Carenado aircraft folder its automatically unchecks "Not Recommended"? But obviously the user can still have the option to include it if they wish too. Just an idea, not sure how difficult it would be to implement.

Regards

Darren

[Peter]

Hi Darren,

yes, that does sound possible. Most aircraft include a tag for the developer so it should be easy enough to identify particular ones. I'll have a thing about that.

Peter

[Peter]

Is anyone finding that this problem is worse in 1.4.9 than 1.4.3? It's possible that the attempted fix has made it worse. Only respond if you're fairly sure there's a difference.

Thanks,
Peter

[OMGEDSON]

I can confirm this also happens with Milviz (310) and RealAir Duke...and a plethora of other planes such as helicopters as you saw in the clip.

This is not a Carenado problem...LM perhaps, but not Carenado specific.

-e

[OMGEDSON]

I ran into a vicious loop today... loaded up in the Carenado Cheyenne II...a friend joined, he was in the Milviz 310 and I model matched him into the Carenado 310R.

The 310R was triggering engine cut out, and was bouncing up and down, every time reloading and i couldn't keep my engines on for more than ~20 seconds... matched him to a UTlive AI and all was well...

[briansommers]

Good to see I'm not the only one.

It kills my Alabeo C207, Mooney M20R Ovation
and
Carenado CT206H, CT210M

It seems once are group are all well in the flight then all is well, but taxi out it was killing it a lot.

I'm using 1.4.9
but it began long time ago
I hope this can get fixed soon.

[OMGEDSON]

You're definitely not alone here. This renders it almost unusable for a large community of GA flyers. It's very unfortunate but a revert to (starts crying) FSCLOUD may be on the docket. Something changed in 4.1 that broke this for everyone. Just because you havent experienced it doesn't mean you won't. It's not all planes, its like the lottery...but when you're hit its keyboard smashing frustration because sometimes I'm on rollout and lifting off and other times on short final.

[skelsey]

But surely the solution is as you stated yourself above: don't allow the affected (i.e. Carenado) models to be injected as AI! Ensure that they are substituted for alternative models instead. That doesn't stop anyone from flying the Carenado model, it just means that in your session they must be displayed as an alternative model.

As I say, I really think you're asking Peter to fix something which isn't his doing here. If an aircraft developer has introduced an anti-piracy method which triggers when their models are injected as AI, surely it's up to them to refine the way the DRM operates rather than other software having to effectively try and find a way around the DRM?

Have you tried contacting Carenado? What do they say?

[blue_ice]

I've personally witnessed the engine cut problem on Fscloud on a live stream and heard it has happened on Vpilot too, so it appears its not just unique to Joinfs. I've been using 3rd party AI both freeware and payware since day one of using JFS which is why i've never experienced the engine cut issue first hand. I do feel careful model matching is the way forward for now.

Darren

[briansommers]

I tried 1.4.10 and it crash p3d v4.1 right on startup twice
then I rolled back to .9 and it didn't crash but had two engines out.

our group is planning a long flight from KSFO to PHNL in four weeks from today.

I'm afraid I'll have to fly this off line as I don't like to think of having a restart over the drink!

I'll be flying the Carenado Hawker 850XP

[OMGEDSON]

The issue here is that It's not only Carenado, as we've listed and clipped live a number of other developer planes, and it's not all their planes, just a select few.

I'm not BLAMING @peter and insisting it's only him that has to fix this, but as a developer one must adapt to the landscape. Learn what HAS changed and adapt the product to function as intended. It's quite obvious by this being the largest bug thread here it's not what Peter would want.

So we know...

it's not ONLY carenado
It's not ALL planes
It's not ONLY planes
It started in v4.1

With that we need to identify what it could be, and develop around it. Imagine if the solution were what you're asking, we'd need to post and distribute a running list of aircraft to exclude in model matching. I have well over 1000 simobjects and greatly appreciate being able to point JFS at a folder and hitting scan. Tracking and hand picking exclusions, and force rematching them before every live show is just a no-go.

-e

[OMGEDSON]

The Frustration continues...

https://clips.twitch.tv/SneakyHeadstron ... ium=create

[spokes2112]

That is classic Carenado injection..
They do a mixture cut and a "hard over" of the ailerons or elevator.
It is not the aircraft that joined the server. It is the aircraft being portrayed on the user side injected from JoinFS.
Take all your carenado / alabeo aircraft out of the hangar while online and you'll never see the problem again. Alias them to something else.

[OMGEDSON]

I'll reiterate once again that we know...

it's not ONLY carenado
It's not ALL carenado planes
It's not ONLY planes
It started in v4.1

Excluding carenado from model matching wont solve the issue in full, and it certainly isn't a viable solution to request of all users on a software built to scale forward with each new sim revision. Imagine needing to maintain a list of "not supported" aircraft? Additionally Carenado aircraft make up a HUGE portion of aircraft used by pilots flying together in the virtual skies...

[skelsey]

So are you saying that you are experiencing this when someone appears in your session - never mind what they're flying on their own machine -- as something other than a Carenado aircraft? All the reports you have listed in this thread have involved a Carenado aircraft being injected as multiplayer/AI models.

As spokes2112 says -- it is not about what YOU are flying, or indeed even what the OTHER person is flying. It's what is PORTRAYED on your side by the model matching.

As I said, vPilot users had the same problem --> remove Carenado models from model matching, no problem any more, which seems rather co-incidental doesn't it? The fact that it is not all Carenado aircraft I imagine is because the older models probably don't have the same anti-piracy measures included.

As far as I can see from what has been reported:

1) If I the Carenado Cheyenne III on my own - no problem.

2) I fly the Carenado 310. Somone else joins flying on THEIR machine, I don't know the A2A PA28, which is subsequently aliased by JoinFS on MY MACHINE to display one of the affected Carenado aircraft. In this situation, the Carenado aircraft that has just loaded on MY MACHINE activates the anti-piracy protection and cuts my engine.

This is not the fault of the A2A PA28 that joined, it is the Carenado aircraft that was displayed on my machine.

3) Imagine the situation is reversed and I am flying the A2A PA28. Someone else joins in the Carenado, but I don't own a Carenado aircraft so it is model matched to a default C172. No problem.

4) Alternatively, however, I am flying the A2A PA28 and someone else joins in the Carenado 310. I happen to have this in my hangar and set up in my model matching, so the other party appears as such. Guess what? As soon as the 310 loads on MY PC, the anti-piracy protection kicks in and cuts my engine.

5) Finally, let's say I'm flying around in the default C172. Someone else joins in the default C172, but for some reason I have that aliased in my model matching to the Carenado 310R. What happens when the 310R loads on my machine? Yep -- anti-piracy kicks in and cuts my engine.

You solved the problem for yourself some posts earlier:

I ran into a vicious loop today... loaded up in the Carenado Cheyenne II...a friend joined, he was in the Milviz 310 and I model matched him into the Carenado 310R.

The 310R was triggering engine cut out, and was bouncing up and down, every time reloading and i couldn't keep my engines on for more than ~20 seconds... matched him to a UTlive AI and all was well...

As mentioned above, the easy fix for this is to just exclude all Carenado models from model matching. That doesn't mean that nobody can ever fly a Carenado aircraft again, it just means that you can only have ONE (i.e. the one you are flying, if that is the case) displayed in YOUR SIMULATOR at any one time. You could have 300 people all flying Carenado aircraft if you want, PROVIDED that they all load as something else in everyone else's model matching.

[spokes2112]

Skelsey... You got it.

[OMGEDSON]

I'll never win against a group of posters that don't seem to think that the point of JoinFS is to enjoy flight together, while seeing your friends/fellow pilots in the correct planes, or maybe flying together as a fleet.

The point is, myself and others have provided MORE than enough evidence that this isnt isolated to Carenado, but you seem to fixate on thinking it is. Additionally you think that "oh just have them pop in with crappy AI models" is what Peter wrote JoinFS for...guys this is about a joint experience. And for the longest time it was all fine, and then as of the most recent builds of P3D it is not. What i'm asking for is for Peter to look into THE SINGLE MOST REPORTED bug on this entire forum, and focus on it until we have a really clean and effective fix. To use technology and programming to resolve a very annoying bug that completely breaks the sole reason this software exists...creating shared experiences of virtual flight.

-Edson

And no, I won't stop reporting it.

[HondaJet]

The little group I fly with every Saturday has had this issue every week since we started using JoinFS months ago. It does not affect everyone but last Saturday I was the lucky one that had the problem really bad. It would move my mixture to cutoff and before I could start the engines again it would do it again.
It was about every 1-2 minutes that is would shut me down. As soon as I shut down JoinFS the aircraft was perfectly stable with no mixture problems.
I was running P3Dv4.2 at the time and just updated to v4.3 to see what happens tomorrow.
It was also in every a/c I tried including RealAir turbo Duke. Some were Carenado also.
I hope the new version will fix this issue for good. We are running JoinFS v1.4.13 but have had the same issue every week with at least one of our group but most times it affects 2 or 3 of us.

[BG2518-Bob]

The feature in Carenado aircraft panels to cold and dark start or start taxi etc conflict with other aircraft in the session that are also Carenado (or Alabeo). Causes engine cut outs on network connection or attempted engine starts.

Solution - DO NOT USE Carenado or Alabeo Model matches or substitutions.