SIMCOM X Voice application

Suggestions, ideas and general discussion about JoinFS.
kc10b747fe
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:04 am

Re: SIMCOM X Voice application

Post by kc10b747fe »

Hey Roo,

Have 3.0.0.13 installed. A couple of configuration questions.

1. Should Upnp be checked or unchecked? if so does it matter what port is listed in the Listening Port Box? Currently my Upnp box is unchecked and is listening on port 57426 which I assume the app chose.

2. What port should be listed on the main page of the client? Is this the port of the person I'm connecting to using join group server? and would that be the port that person has listed on their configuration page? If in SimcomX mode does a port need to be listed?

Your question about listening and already in use on port 7600 got me to thinking I've got something screwed up configuration wise.

3. Am I'm understanding this correctly? in SCX mode with Upnp unchecked the client will use any available port to listen on? When I shut down and closed out the client and restarted, it showed listening on a different port. 55232 to be exact.

I'm no longer receiving errors when using the self test feature, however I still cannot hear myself, so maybe I'm doing something wrong.

Thanks for all your efforts,

Tony J
ATC Roo
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Re: SIMCOM X Voice application

Post by ATC Roo »

Hi Tony,
1. Should Upnp be checked or unchecked? if so does it matter what port is listed in the Listening Port Box? Currently my Upnp box is unchecked and is listening on port 57426 which I assume the app chose.
If you know how to forward a port in your router (not everybody does), you can forward any UDP port and input that port in the config section as the listening port.

If you haven't forwarded a port in your router, but do have Upnp enabled in your router...
With the Upnp checkbox checked in the Simcom X config, SimcomX will automatically try to port forward the port in the listening port box.

If Upnp isn't enabled in your router, checking the Upnp box will do nothing.

If you haven't forwarded a port (either manually or with Upnp) Simcom X will still TRY to listen on the port in the listening port box.
If it can't (the port is already in use for example), it will select a random UDP port that isn't already being used.
It then updates the listening port box to show which port you're listening on and this port will also be used next time (unless it's in use then another is selected).
2. What port should be listed on the main page of the client? Is this the port of the person I'm connecting to using join group server? and would that be the port that person has listed on their configuration page? If in SimcomX mode does a port need to be listed?

Your question about listening and already in use on port 7600 got me to thinking I've got something screwed up configuration wise.
Yes, that all sounds right.

In SCX mode the IP and port boxes on the main screen, can either be blank or still list the last details you entered.
It doesn't matter as the are not used in SCX mode and are only used for the group mode feature.

The IP and Port that should be input in to them are that of another user with group mode selected.

The best way to try group mode..
Ask your flying buddy to select group mode in the config and power on the client.
Ask them for their IP and Port from the log file (the port should match what they have in the config listening port section).
You then select group mode from the config.
On the main screen enter the IP and port your buddy gave you and power on.

Even though your buddy hasn't entered your details, you would still connect to them and they would reply by connecting to you.

They may need to enter an IP and port to get going.
127.0.0.1 and 1234 would work or they could also enter your IP and port.
3. Am I'm understanding this correctly? in SCX mode with Upnp unchecked the client will use any available port to listen on? When I shut down and closed out the client and restarted, it showed listening on a different port. 55232 to be exact.
Yes and no.
With SCX or Group mode the port listed in the listening port is the one you are listening on.
Regardless on wether Upnp is ticked or not.

The only reason it would change is if the old port was in use by something else.

If you closed the app and opened it again too quickly, it could be that the old port was still in use by an old instance of the app and hadn't yet been released for some reason.
So the newly opened app selected a new port.
I'm no longer receiving errors when using the self test feature, however I still cannot hear myself, so maybe I'm doing something wrong.
Well that's good and bad. 😁

Check your volume is not set to minimum.
Both COM 1 and COM 2 now have volume adjustments on the main screen + & -.
Windows also liked to minimise the volume for the whole app when I first tested.

You can check by opening the volume mixer from your tool bar. It will show the volume level for all apps you have open.

After a Google it was something to do with the communication feature in the windows audio settings.
I turned it off.

That's my best guess without an error.

It could also be a firewall issue.
A firewall blocking all data in and out?
But you're able to use the chat window?

Did you allow it though Windows defender when you first ran the app (pop up message thingy).
If you're unsure you can open Windows defender, remove all instances of Simcom X and it will ask you again the next time you open Simcom X.

Below is an old webpage I wrote to try and explain.
https://dotdash.space/scx/firewall.html

I appreciate all the help btw.
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Re: SIMCOM X Voice application

Post by ATC Roo »

GianP wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 11:12 am Hi Roo, update for ver. 3.0.0.13
Tested SCX mode using 2 PCs on local ntwk, both Win10 x64, no simulator running.
PC1 - I-TEST (my Sim PC) with camera mic + loudspeakers (nice larsen effect if "ST ON"!)
PC2 - LIMC_TWR (my home srvr) set as ATC (config window) NO mic, speakers only
PC2 input is via "VB-Audio virtual cable" drivers feeding from BFSG atis "generator".

Outcome: all works as designed with good sound quality. Nothing relevant in logs.

Some "flaws".
1) I have 2 output sound devices on both PCs. In the config window I need to set the "wrong one".
Ex: In PC1 I need to set "headphones" to send output to the speakers end vice-versa.
Same on PC2 (virtual cable set to hear via speakers)
2) With only "play sound on RX finish" set there is "mic switch sound" also when PTT key is released after my transmission.
I think this is a leftover from the early versions when RX light was coming on after TX.

Final note: I have port forwarding manually set in my router for both PCs.

Ciao
Thanks Gian.
I understand what you are doing with the virtual cable.

I should be able to change the sound devices to what you'd need, but for now I'll concentrate on the dedicated ATC client that people have long awaited.

The ATC client also has a built in ATIS which may also work for your needs.

I'm curious, does the Virtual cable show in the drop down boxes?


I'll also look at the playback RX/TX sounds.
kc10b747fe
Posts: 54
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Re: SIMCOM X Voice application

Post by kc10b747fe »

Roo,

Thanks for the explanation. I'll check my router to see if I have port forwarding enabled.

Some partial good news. I was online in SCX mode with GianP. I was able to hear him very clearly, but he could not hear me. So we are making some headway.

Tony J
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Re: SIMCOM X Voice application

Post by ATC Roo »

kc10b747fe wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 5:30 pm Roo,

Thanks for the explanation. I'll check my router to see if I have port forwarding enabled.

Some partial good news. I was online in SCX mode with GianP. I was able to hear him very clearly, but he could not hear me. So we are making some headway.

Tony J
In that case I would ignore port forwards, Upnp etc...
As the data is getting to you. Otherwise you wouldn't hear him.

I'd concentrate on the self test feature until you can hear yourself, sounds mic related now.
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GianP
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Re: SIMCOM X Voice application

Post by GianP »

ATC Roo wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 5:30 pm I'm curious, does the Virtual cable show in the drop down boxes?
Yes! Virtual cable generates two devices that look "real" and you see them everywhere (Win device mgmt, etc)
I set "BFSG atis program" output to CABLE Input (VB-Audio Virtual Cable) and CABLE Output (VB-Audio Virtual Cable) to SimcomX input.
That works ok.

About my session with Tony (as I understand):
At first he wasn't hearing me. Then (via msgs) as he has multiple output I suggested to try to use another one, not the right one he was expecting to have my voice out ..... and it made the magic!

So it looks like the output config dropdown is screwed-up.

back to my mic as I see Tony connected
GianP
-------------------
Homepage: gianp.altervista.org ** Homeserver: gianp.onmypc.net (seldom online on internet)
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Re: SIMCOM X Voice application

Post by ATC Roo »

Ok I'll look at the sound devices shortly. That would explain why Tony can't send audio too.
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Re: SIMCOM X Voice application

Post by ATC Roo »

Yup. I can confirm that the microphones don't correspond to the names shown in the mic selection.

Speakers seem fine.

I'm working on it now to correct it, so far no idea why.

In the meantime selecting the mic you don't want should work.
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GianP
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Re: SIMCOM X Voice application

Post by GianP »

Well Roo .... on my 2 systems it looks the other way around!
Mics (input) are ok while I need to swap output devices "label" in the dropdown to listen from the one I want to use.

I've a third PC (not in my study room), btw with Win11.
Going to check it now.
cheers
GianP
-------------------
Homepage: gianp.altervista.org ** Homeserver: gianp.onmypc.net (seldom online on internet)
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GianP
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Re: SIMCOM X Voice application

Post by GianP »

ATC Roo wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 8:20 pm Yup. I can confirm that the microphones don't correspond to the names shown in the mic selection.

Speakers seem fine.
I'm confused, really confused :!: . My 3rd PC behavior is exactly as Roo wrote above!
The only big difference is that this one is Win11 vs Win10 on those I tested until yesterday.
GianP
-------------------
Homepage: gianp.altervista.org ** Homeserver: gianp.onmypc.net (seldom online on internet)
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Re: SIMCOM X Voice application

Post by ATC Roo »

See what 3.1.0.0 does?
kc10b747fe
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Re: SIMCOM X Voice application

Post by kc10b747fe »

Roo,

Had a chance to check out 3.1.1.0 today. I installed it on a different computer with just a (USB) headset/mic. They are the only selection in the drop down menu. On the client, SCX mode, Upnp not ticked. On my router, Upnp NOT enabled, no port forwarding and I still could not hear myself using self test. The mic tests fine in windows as well as the headset plays all sounds with no problem. I then installed 3.1.1.0 on my main machine. Since this computer is on the same network as the other computer, the router configuration is the same. Again I could not hear myself using self test. I tried different inputs and outputs which were reflected in the help window when I changed them (nice touch), but could not hear myself. The log showed no errors. Only self test started and stopped.

When testing between the 2 computers, I was intermittently able to hear voice tx on my main computer when using the secondary machine PTT, however when using the main computer PTT, I could not hear any tx. I could see the TX and RX lights as before, but no voice. I could not find a consistent reason why I could hear one time but not other times.

Everything was similar to when I was online with GianP. I could hear him but he could not hear me.

I'm kind of at a loss, as when I go back to 2.2.2.5, everything works with no issues at all, and without changing any of my configuration settings.

I'm running Win 10 all machines. I'll keep at it. It has to be something simple, though for the life of me I can't figure out what it is.

Tony J
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Re: SIMCOM X Voice application

Post by ATC Roo »

Thanks Tony.
The audio devices were being added to the drop down menu in a random order for some reason.
There didn't seem to be any logic to it, so I totally rewrote the audio devices part of the code last night, using a different method and all now seems fine apart from it cuts off the end of the device name(I can live with that).

Current version V3.1.0.1

You've tested exactly as I would.
The good news is that you've eliminated a lot.

The network side is working. You've proved this by being able to see TX/RX lights, chat messages and hearing people.
So you you can ignore things like port forwarding and upnp.

You can also send chat messages and people can see when you are trying to transmit?
That proves you are sending data.

All I believe that's left is the way we are gaining the audio data to send (aka the mic/input device).

What I'll implement if we still have no joy is the audio data being sent show in the output window.
It will look like gobble de gook but if nothing shows, nothing is being sent.

Things you can look at your end are as below.
There is a setting (in windows 10 at least) called Microphone privacy settings.

It will show a list of apps which have tried to access your microphone.
Simcom X should be in there and set to On.
Be aware that the older version of Simcom X will also be in there set to on.
Bad name design choice on my side.

Click the windows Icon bottom right and start typing Microphone Privacy Settings.
It will show up.

Another is in the Sound Control Panel.
Under the Communications tab, select Do Nothing.

You can get to the Sound Control Panel by going to the normal control panel and clicking Sound.

The bit that's throwing me slightly is the intermittent audio you received, but I'll add some extra checks to see if I can find out why yours doesn't work.

If you solely test by using the Self Test feature, that will eliminate any kind of outside network issues.
As you are simply connecting to yourself on the same machine in the same app.
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GianP
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Re: SIMCOM X Voice application

Post by GianP »

Bravo Roo!
Tested 3.1.0.1 with I-TEST (pilot) and LIMC_TWR (ATC) in SCX mode on my home network.
* They "talk" to each other,
* Device selection dropdowns are fixed; they show the right device providing input or output at that moment,
* RX mic switch noise after my transmission no more present (unless checked in config!),

Only a minor issue: sometimes, opening the config window multiple times, the application abends. (Win10, not tested Win11)
This never happens the 1st time it's opened and looks like happens after some minutes the application is running.

Ciao
GianP
-------------------
Homepage: gianp.altervista.org ** Homeserver: gianp.onmypc.net (seldom online on internet)
ATC Roo
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Re: SIMCOM X Voice application

Post by ATC Roo »

Grazie.

I'll look at the config more closely.

Multiple users is what I'd like to test at the moment.
I've only managed to test with one other so far and I'm hoping that they way I've designed it, there shouldn't be an issue. :?
kc10b747fe
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Re: SIMCOM X Voice application

Post by kc10b747fe »

Roo,

Now on the latest version. All windows settings are set as you indicated. Initially I was not able to self test, however all of a sudden it started working. I was able to self test on both machines with power off and on.

When tx between machines I was able to hear myself both ways, but it was intermittent. Sometimes I had to restart the client and then it would work.

GianP was able to hear me a few times and I briefly heard him tx ATIS on 120.025 (about 5-10 secs), then all i could hear was slight background hiss. The client crashed a few times, and I posted the details below.

I'll be testing a little more to see if I can find some consistency on connecting between my machines.

Tony J

See the end of this message for details on invoking
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
at System.Windows.Forms.RichTextBox.EditStreamProc(IntPtr dwCookie, IntPtr buf, Int32 cb, Int32& transferred)
at System.Windows.Forms.UnsafeNativeMethods.CallWindowProc(IntPtr wndProc, IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wParam, IntPtr lParam)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.DefWndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.DefWndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.TextBoxBase.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.RichTextBox.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.8.4510.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_B
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v4.0.30319/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
SIMCOM X
Assembly Version: 3.1.0.1
Win32 Version: 3.1.0.1
CodeBase: file:///C:/Simcomx/SIMCOM%20X.exe
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.8.4488.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_C
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.8.4488.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_C
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.8.4390.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_C
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Speech
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.8.4200.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_C
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Speech/v4.0_4.0.0.0__31bf3856ad364e35/System.Speech.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Configuration
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.8.4190.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_B
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Configuration/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Configuration.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Core
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.8.4470.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_C
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Core/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Core.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Xml
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.8.4084.0 built by: NET48REL1
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll
----------------------------------------
fsuipcClient
Assembly Version: 3.2.19.388
Win32 Version: 3.1.0.1
CodeBase: file:///C:/Simcomx/SIMCOM%20X.exe
----------------------------------------
System.Device
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.8.4084.0 built by: NET48REL1
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Device/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Device.dll
----------------------------------------
SharpDX.DirectInput
Assembly Version: 4.2.0.0
Win32 Version: 3.1.0.1
CodeBase: file:///C:/Simcomx/SIMCOM%20X.exe
----------------------------------------
NAudio.WinMM
Assembly Version: 2.0.1.0
Win32 Version: 3.1.0.1
CodeBase: file:///C:/Simcomx/SIMCOM%20X.exe
----------------------------------------
netstandard
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.8.4084.0
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/netstandard/v4.0_2.0.0.0__cc7b13ffcd2ddd51/netstandard.dll
----------------------------------------
NAudio.WinForms
Assembly Version: 2.0.1.0
Win32 Version: 3.1.0.1
CodeBase: file:///C:/Simcomx/SIMCOM%20X.exe
----------------------------------------
NAudio.Core
Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 3.1.0.1
CodeBase: file:///C:/Simcomx/SIMCOM%20X.exe
----------------------------------------
SharpDX
Assembly Version: 4.2.0.0
Win32 Version: 3.1.0.1
CodeBase: file:///C:/Simcomx/SIMCOM%20X.exe
----------------------------------------
NSpeex
Assembly Version: 1.1.3.0
Win32 Version: 3.1.0.1
CodeBase: file:///C:/Simcomx/SIMCOM%20X.exe
----------------------------------------
Open.Nat
Assembly Version: 1.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 3.1.0.1
CodeBase: file:///C:/Simcomx/SIMCOM%20X.exe
----------------------------------------
Microsoft.FlightSimulator.SimConnect
Assembly Version: 10.0.61259.0
Win32 Version: 10.0.61637.0 (FSX-Xpack.20070926-1421)
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/assembly/GAC_32/Microsoft.FlightSimulator.SimConnect/10.0.61259.0__31bf3856ad364e35/Microsoft.FlightSimulator.SimConnect.dll
----------------------------------------
LumiSoft.Net
Assembly Version: 2.0.4492.11923
Win32 Version: 3.1.0.1
CodeBase: file:///C:/Simcomx/SIMCOM%20X.exe
----------------------------------------

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:

<configuration>
<system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
rather than be handled by this dialog box.
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Re: SIMCOM X Voice application

Post by ATC Roo »

Aha.. good stuff.
And that's an easy bug fix too.

Leave it with me......
dale152
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Re: SIMCOM X Voice application

Post by dale152 »

Hi Roo,

We've been testing SIMCOM X again. It's getting better, but it's not consistent. Sometimes we can hear each other but broken, then other times its static or really quiet. There's also some interference beep sounds we can hear occasionally at the end of transmissions.

We're still getting the error when pressing CONFIG.

The latest version did flag up as a virus. (3.1.0.1)

Hope this helps.

Kind Regards,
Dale
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Re: SIMCOM X Voice application

Post by ATC Roo »

Thanks Dale.

The interference beep will be when your transmitting for too long (30seconds off the top of my head), it was originally added to Simcom X to try and mitigate against a stuck mic/a person intentionally keying up playing music etc.
Does the 30seconds need lengthening do you think?

Do you have the distance box ticked when it's static or really quiet?

The distance box will do that to mimic line of sight and RT transmissions

I've ripped everything to do with the config out and only put back what is needed, so let me know how that works. 🤞
dale152
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:03 pm

Re: SIMCOM X Voice application

Post by dale152 »

I don't really think the 30 seconds needs lengthening, however I am thinking it's potentially not the beep you're thinking of. The sound itself is a bit hard to describe, could you maybe share a file of what it sounds like, and I can tell you if it was that? (I haven't managed to reproduce it)

The distance box was checked on my end, so it could be that. I'm not sure for other people's settings, but apparently I came through with static only on some instances.

It is consistent with what you say though, as, EGPH_APP was louder at EGPH and SCO_CTR was too quiet. Would SCO_CTR be centered at "0,0" as it's not a recognised ICAO?

CONFIG on the new version is working well so far - it seems faster to open as well. I'll leave a comment below if that changes.

Kind Regards,
Dale
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